Tonefiend Forum

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.





Pages: [1]
Author Topic: too good to be enjoyable
smgear

Posts: 170
Permalink
Post too good to be enjoyable
on: February 11, 2013, 08:02
Quote

<rant>

So I was just googling some samples from some of the grammy nominees/winners I didn't recognize to see if I'd actually been missing anything. There was some good stuff in there, but I was struck with a familiar feeling when I was checking out some of the jazz/latin stuff. I went through that listening/playing phase about 15 years ago and I still love those genres immensely, but I was just reminded again why I've largely stopped paying attention to the new entrants.

For example, Manuel Valera and the New Cuban Express:

If you watch that vid, the music is spectacular, the playing perfect, the 'improv' is technically/theoretically very complex, the arrangement detailed and tight etc. But they looked as bored playing it as I was listening to it. In the jazz realm especially, we're into our second (or third) generation of 'students'. So I'm assuming that at least a couple of those players went to Berkeley or some similar school. They spent untold hours practicing the scales and studying the chordal theory, etc. They know how to follow the lead sheet and insert complex substitutions and connecting runs. But it's boring!! There is no energy, no passion, and I feel like it lacks creativity. There is a difference between mastery and creativity and I feel like the jazz world in particular (but really any genre) needs more of the latter and less of the former.

I think it is indicative of the fundamental problem with how we teach/study music. I think it's important to learn scales, theory, voicings, etc., but when your primary focus is to learn exactly how to play like your reference heroes, then you fall into a trap where you've programmed your fingers and head into patterns that, at their best, will only be equal copies of the originals. In which case, I'd rather just listen to the originals.

Or maybe each genre only has enough space for so many core variations. But I think not. I think it's far more advisable to just find your own voice as early into the process as possible and not spend too much time trying to learn or recreate the music of others. Spend your time figuring out how to get what's in your head into your fingers. We're never free from our musical influences, but we don't have to become slaves to them.....

</rant>

Double D

Posts: 195
Permalink
Post Re: too good to be enjoyable
on: February 12, 2013, 18:55
Quote

+1 !

MichaelM

Posts: 17
Permalink
Post Re: too good to be enjoyable
on: February 14, 2013, 14:47
Quote

I agree. With guitar, I don't find the crazy fast shredding at all interesting to listen to. Yeah I can see the technical skill, but it really doesn't interest me.

I've always thought of music theory as important in that it makes it easier for you to break the rules in a way that doesn't sound shit.

I realized that playing expressively was more important than playing โ€œwell.โ€ - Joe Gore ๐Ÿ˜›

Oinkus

Posts: 236
Permalink
Post Re: too good to be enjoyable
on: February 15, 2013, 06:48
Quote

Looks to me like there is still and always going to be some kind of bias against lots of notes in smaller spaces.Takes me back to Beethoven and Paganini but in the guitar world I go to Shawn Lane for a guitarist with incredible "feel". I have this talk with a guy a lot and he equates how many notes you play with the amount of feeling you possess. Have to say they are not remotely related and generally people don't play fast because they are unable to or too lazy to put in the work to achieve that amount of skill.If you slow down the metronome anyone can play 128th notes really.Have to say music either is good to your ear or not and that depends on many variables.

thomas4th

Posts: 6
Permalink
Post Re: too good to be enjoyable
on: March 2, 2013, 22:42
Quote

Quote from Oinkus on February 15, 2013, 06:48
Looks to me like there is still and always going to be some kind of bias against lots of notes in smaller spaces.Takes me back to Beethoven and Paganini but in the guitar world I go to Shawn Lane for a guitarist with incredible "feel". I have this talk with a guy a lot and he equates how many notes you play with the amount of feeling you possess. Have to say they are not remotely related and generally people don't play fast because they are unable to or too lazy to put in the work to achieve that amount of skill.If you slow down the metronome anyone can play 128th notes really.Have to say music either is good to your ear or not and that depends on many variables.

I don't think it's quite fair to characterize most people who don't play fast as lazy - while there may be some who are (including me to an extent), I think often it's as much a function of not wanting to play fast enough to put in the work. Do I still sometimes wish I could dance across the fingerboard like Paul Gilbert or Yngwie Malmsteen? Yes, but for the most part such music simply doesn't captivate me like it did when I was younger, and playing fast simply isn't a priority for me. I wholeheartedly agree with you that "feel" and speed are not connected at all (I've heard lots of emotionally evocative fast playing, while plenty of slow playing leaves me cold - you don't want to get me started on how dull and hackneyed I find most blues playing), but it seems as though you might be painting people who don't play fast with too broad a brush, or at least there's more nuance to your position than I'm reading here.

Oinkus

Posts: 236
Permalink
Post Re: too good to be enjoyable
on: March 3, 2013, 05:46
Quote

Yeah I am not equating slow to lazy at all,just the ones that make a lot of noise about it. Complaining about this or that and not have the actual ability is basically laziness.Learn , acquire the skill,then give me the whole entire show with everything included. Speed is just one side of tempo , use it for variation and change. Phrasing requires different textures to be used , one of the easiest to learn is changing how fast or slow you play something.

Pages: [1]
Mingle Forum by cartpauj
Version: 1.0.34 ; Page loaded in: 0.022 seconds.

Comments are closed.