Tonefiend Forum

You sound like an old Jazzman!

Quote from Double D on August 31, 2012, 00:06
I wish I had the harmonic chops to really play jazz. I just kinda' play at jazz. 🙁

Oh pish-posh. You're just too fixated on being able to play GOOD jazz.

But really, I love your original post. As scientific and mechanical as you can make music in your personal practice and structured environments, as soon as you add someone who doesn't know every song you play by the strict rules you play them by, it becomes all about this great give and take. Sadly I've seen people fail at this in both music and conversation. People talk at each other rather than to each other, and they fail to listen entirely. Enjoy the conversation!

Quote from Digital Larry on August 31, 2012, 13:47
My verbal conversation is filled with inside jokes that only I understand, free-association pop culture references, non-sequiturs and tangents about traveling to Japan. So what does that say about my playing? Hmmmm.

I think all of that (in musical terms) is fair game. When we quote a snatch of an old standard's melody over another tune, isn't that just what we're doing? When we evoke the tones of a classic recording and bend them to our will, isn't that what we're doing? My playing is full of such outside perspectives, but placed in context to broaden the "conversation". Joe's gleeful deconstructions are much the same idea as well, creating a running commentary with our collective memory.
One of the most successful examples I can think of is Jules Holland's brilliant co-opting of an old Big Three Trio piano solo for Squeeze's "Cool For Cats". Not too many new wavers would have ever heard the Big Three's tune that provided the magic in that song, but Jules was able to not only complement the tune beautifully, but pull Squeeze's pop music into some sort of historical/cultural context. Pretty good in-joke; it took me about fifteen years to get it, but when I got it, I got it!

Here's a good interview with drummer Billy Hart. He's worked with just about everyone, and he talks about the challenges of adapting his playing style to what people want:

https://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/interview-with-billy-hart.html

Quote from Schrodingersgoldfish on September 2, 2012, 13:29

Quote from dasein on September 2, 2012, 12:45
But really, I think the only way you can be sure is to ask the soloist.

I'm confused. What exactly are we being sure about?

I think we should be careful about crossing our metaphors here. I think we can all agree that conversational band playing is certainly different from accompanying a soloist. Accompanying a soloist is really just helping facilitate a speech. If he's a real soloist, everyone came to here him. Playing in a band, and especially a band with improvisational elements, necessitates keeping good conversational give and take.

Being sure about how a soloist wants to be accompanied.

Yes, there is a conversational element to groups, especially those that value improvisation. But it isn't 100% pure conversation unless it's free improvisation. There are agreed-upon structures to the music, and one is that "if a player is taking a solo, the rhythm section of the band act as accompanists and will repress their ego and try to support the soloist as best as possible."

And the fact is, different soloists pretty different types of accompaniment. In that interview, Billy Hart talks about how Wes Montgomery preferred his drummers to be super straight-ahead. Most of the Tristano school players also preferred the rhythm section to stay out of the way of the soloists. A group like Miles Davis' second quintet, however, is pretty radically different. Listening to things like the Plugged Nickel recordings, it's clear that the rhythm section takes a much more interactive role, and will change the course of the tune how they see fit without any warning.

There's nothing wrong with any of these approaches, it's all a matter of preference. Personally, I like for a rhythm section to surprise me. But the only way to know for certain, again, is to talk to the other players in the band and have them tell you how they prefer to be accompanied.

This isn't just a courtesy, it's also a very smart way to ensure that you keep your gig.